adminPaul Lakeland, Aloysius P. Kelley, S.J., Professor of Catholic Studies, Director of the Center for Catholic Studies at Fairfield University, and an organizer of the series, states that:
“The conversation on lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender issues in the Roman Catholic Church has for too long been only a monologue — the sole voice being heard is that of the institutional Catholic Church. That’s why many Americans believe, incorrectly, that all Catholics are opposed to equal rights for LGBT people. It’s time for a 21st century conversation on sexual diversity, with new and different voices heard from.”
Join the conversation prior to the More than a Monologue series of events by commenting below.
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I attended the More than a Monologue session on Oct. 1 at Union Theological Seminary. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to hear voices who question how we might make room at the table for all. As an American Catholic woman, I was particularly struck by Robert Shore-Goss’s comments that we will not achieve inclusion of all people, including LGBT people, until we confront our misogynistic hierarchy. I remain in our Church, with all its flaws, in hope that one day all are welcome and equal.
Thank you for hosting this conversation. I became active in the marriage movement with the first rally for Civil Marriage in New York in Feb. 1998 ‘In my own research there have been blessing liturgies for same sex couples since the ’70s- shortly after Stonewall
IN 2003 my spouse Tom & married with the participation of our Catholic faith community. RTE televised it as a documentary on a Catholic same sex marriage ( called would you believe) In July 2003 we legally wed in Toronto & I co founded the Civil Marriage Trail Project helping couples cross borders for legal marriage. Many other same sex Catholic couples have been married in sacramental ceremonies though the years like our friends Eddie & Vinnie ( a documentary SAINTS & SINNERS tells their story)
I have been hearing & gathering stories from couples around the world – there is a conversation taking place in the Catholic community that is changing hearts and minds. Many are committed to equal rights in our civil society and equal rites in our Church communities. We are witnessing and participating in a new movement and a new moment. This forum is a refreshing space for dialogue and hearing stories of Catholic same sex couples and families. Many thanks
This is a masquerade. This is a waste of time, money, and cyber space. There is no point to this at all. The Church is VERY CLEAR about these issues and we the faithful are expected to follow the judgement from the learned authorities who alone are the sole interpreters of Sacred Scripture and how it applies for the Church.
Anyone who involves themselves with this will be excommunicated latae sententiae incurred at the moment of committing this offence for which Canon Law imposes that penalty. It isn’t so hard to follow the rules you know. Obedience is a virtue. Get real.
Dear Mark:
I think your knowledge of canon law may be a little shaky here. A person might conceivable incur automatic excommunication for denying a dogma, article of the creed or, especially, a truth of the gospel. Which of these do you believe someone might be contravening?
There is no question that Mark’s absolutist– I would call it “neo-medieval”– stance is now practiced by so many church authorities and their supporters. Yes, they forbid even discussion of so many controversial topics in today’s church under pain of excommunication. They don’t burn people at the stake, hang them, or imprison them for disagreeing, the wipe out strategy is the same.
Not the kind of church I, for one, think of as modeling humble reconciliation, truth seeking, in love. Obviously not what the “More than a monologue..” folks are carrying out. Maybe Mark wasn’t born early enough or hasn’t studied church history to see a different order that became apparent in Vatican II. Oh I know that even Vatican II has been hijecked by many Catholics, not just the hierarchy. What I lived through in Rome from 1960-64 as a seminarian during Vat. II isn’t recognizable in many of the pronouncements of those shutting down discussion.
Mark does need to study recent Catholic history, but he would also do well to study such things as the Western Schism –not the Protestant Reformation–when there were two popes, bishops on the side of one or the other, the “corrupt” clergy, kings and noblemen — who fought over control of the church and who had “sole” powers. His absolutist stance is one way of solving disagreements–latae sententiae excommunication, “sole” interpreters, etc, etc He needs to analyze how Galileo was put through hell and then finally accepted 4 centuries later by Pope John Paul II who apologized for the errors of the church’s ways.
We’re talking about the disagreement over church teaching on homosexuality, a much more controversial issue than married priests, women priests. Because it has to do with sex there is a layer of guilt that motivates people like Mark to put an end to any and all thought on the matter. That is why we Catholics who believe in loving, truthtelling, and seeking communion need to come out of our silence, into our churches promoting dialog with everyone, church authorities included. The untold suffering caused by the Catholic teaching on homosexuality–intentional or not–has to stop, now, not after centuries more of silence. The martyrs to Catholic teaching on homosexuality, the bold “out” front advocates, have been laboring by themselves for long enough. The reported “majority” of Catholics sitting in the pews on Sundays need to come “out” and share their conscientious positions and challenge the teaching–in love, in communion, in truth.
Thanks “More than a monologue…” organizers! Don’t give up.
I work in Catholic ministry, and we’ve had many testimonies of LIBERATION and FREEDOM from participants in this apostolate: http://couragerc.net
The catholic ministry about which Angela talks, “Courage” founded by Fr. John Harvey and the Catholic counterpart to the Protestant service, NARTH. Both of these services have a constituency of professionals who are not in step with the mental health professionals at large. They may well have testimonials from people who consider themselves freed from what the Catholic church tells them is a sinful inclination. Just as alcoholics and others torn apart by their inner drives contrary to their health.
The entire service rests upon a given that despite Catholic teaching is a generally considered normal, healthy condition. Those of us, and I am one of them, who consider same gender orientation to be normal and healthy and equal for achieving sanctity with people opposite gender orentatation see Courage using spiritual/psychological counseling to support a falsehood. This falsehood will in time be seen for what it is.
Popes and the hierarchy as well as laypeople have been wrong so many times and got away with violent persecution in the name of religion. I would like to have people give up the medieval ways of dealing with disagreement over theology. I consider Courage to be a neo-medieval torture, not a therapy. I want those who disagree with us to enter into a dialog that searches to do the “least harm” to one another.
Help me advocate for the truth of homosexuality by going to <http://www.signon.org/sign/doma-we-catholics-support Let the discussion be open, loving, true.
Thanks,
Tom Luce, 1515 Fairview St. Berkeley, Ca 73 years old, married faithfully and happily for 41 years, father of 3 children, 3 grandchildren, and definitively same gender oriented. Ordained Catholic priest 1963 in Rome,, graduate of the Gregorian U. and North American College. My conviction about my sexual orientation went through a long, thorough discernment process. It's time that we change the teaching.
My apologies, the previous post had a couple of non-sensical sentences!
The catholic ministry about which Angela talks is “Courage,” founded by Fr. John Harvey and is the Catholic counterpart to the Protestant service, NARTH. Both of these services have a constituency of professionals who are not in step with the mental health professional at large. They may well have testimonials from people who consider themselves freed from what the Catholic church tells them is a sinful inclination. Just as alcoholics and others torn apart by their inner drives contrary to their health.
However the entire service rests upon a given that Catholic teaching is correct, that homosexuality is a “disorder”. Those of us, and I am one of them, who consider same gender orientation to be normal and healthy and equal for achieving sanctity with people opposite gender orentatation, see Courage using spiritual/psychological counseling to support a falsehood. This falsehood will in time be seen for what it is.
Popes and the hierarchy as well as laypeople have been wrong so many times and got away with violent persecution in the name of religion. I would like to have people give up the medieval ways of dealing with disagreement over theology. I consider Courage to be a neo-medieval torture, not a therapy. I want those who disagree with us to enter into a dialog that searches to do the “least harm” to one another.
Help me advocate for the truth of homosexuality by going to <http://www.signon.org/sign/doma-we-catholics-support Let the discussion be open, loving, true.
Thanks,
Tom Luce, 1515 Fairview St. Berkeley, Ca 73 years old, married faithfully and happily for 41 years, father of 3 children, 3 grandchildren, and definitively same gender oriented. Ordained Catholic priest 1963 in Rome,, graduate of the Gregorian U. and North American College. My conviction about my sexual orientation went through a long, thorough discernment process. It's time that we change the teaching.
Reply
will this conference adhere to the Catechism? Will the blessing of chastity be the focal point? Otherwise, it will be promoting sin.
I don’t see anything wrong with this as long as the authentic voice of the Church is heard in the dialogue. But as far as I can tell there is nobody on the roster who will be presenting her truth. How is any learning going to occur there? That is unfortunate.
LGBTs everywhere we love you and pray for you! Don’t give up on Christ and his Church!
So, am I correct in assuming that you will have someone like Dr. Janet Smith, Dr. Alice Von Hidebrand, or Christopher West, or even a Bishop, who will be there to communicate the authenticity of the teachings of the church?
Because if, not, then it’s only a monologue (your word, not mine) in the opposite direction.
Since this is an open, diverse conference (and “more than a monologue”) what conservative Catholic speakers do you have booked for the event?
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Good to see that this college is going to do something about it
why is the only apostolate with the full approval of the vatican not invited? Courage and Encourage? they promote understanding those dealing with Same sex attraction with love and compassion. Just as any other persons not in a sacramental marriage of a man and a woman we are all called to a life of chastity. Marriage is only marriage if it is open to live, if it vows permanence, fidelity.
Thanks, I’ve been looking for info about this topic for ages and yours is the best I have located so far.
As a bisexual Catholic, I’m absolutely thrilled to hear about this series of conversations. I’d love to attend the first event, but live over 5 hours away. Do you have any idea about the time at which this event will take place on Friday?
Laurie, thanks so much for this kind feedback! The September 16 “Learning to Listen” event at Fordham will begin at around 11:30 AM and conclude at around 8:30 PM. There will be an afternoon session from 11:30 until about 5:00, a break for a reception, and then a large public evening forum from around 6:30 until 8:30. Check back on this site for more details as they become available!
Will there be any opportunity at the conference for participation by similar university-based groups? The “Out There” conferences are an example of another attempt to bring Catholic colleges together around LGBT issues. The organizers have included Gary Cestaro (DePaul), Tom O’Brien (California State at Long Beach) and Shirley McGuire (U. San Francisco). The Chicago Chapter of Dignity presented at the Jesuit Universities conference on LGBT issues held at Loyola of Chicago a few years ago. I was director of “leadership and advocacy” (social justice efforts) for Dignity/Chicago at the time, and spent a good deal of time organizing. The history of “loyal opposition” from groups such as Dignity, Fortunate Families, New Ways Ministries, Call to Action and so on, could be a significant topic for your conference, and I’m hoping it will have a place in your discussions. It would be interesting, as well, to include the “collaborationist” groups sponsored by many Catholic dioceses, groups which support indirectly the hierarchy’s official positions against same-sex marriage, the idea that homosexuals are “intrinsically disordered” and that all relationships among gay people are “intrinsically evil”, by declaring that these pronouncements are mere “legal fictions” which are necessary to keep peace in the family. Do the collaborators actually support these positions more than they realize? Is their silence consent? In any case, the last forty years of activism does provide a context for your upcoming conference. I’m wishing you every success.
I am an inactive catholic priest who had to leave the active ministry in order to be in a relationship with a man I love. I love the Church and still say mass for catholics at Dignity. I wish I could be active in the Church and serve as a priest but the intense homophobia among the Vatican and the current Pope and Bishops precludes that. Clearly they are NOT listening to the Holy Sprit speaking thru the People of God and can only repeat the same old teaching without the slightest openness to change and real listening. The current Pope (as Cardinal) silenced friends of mine who were priests working in catholic gay ministry simply because they asked for open hearts and compassionate listening; they were not asking for a change in church teaching! If you are too afraid to listen and be compassionate what does that say about your ability to be open to the Spirit?
Thank you so much for having the courage to open this dialogue because the monologue is not working and is making us all sick! Let’s grow up and be adults and listen to each other with open hearts. I know you will pay a price for this courage because there is persecution in our Church of those who attempt to simply address this issue in an open dialogue. This is how sick we have become. It is time for healing and openness. Please make public any recriminations from the Vatican and the Bishops so that we can all deal with it and respond to it and be supportive of these two courageous Catholic Institutions. I am a graduate of Catholic University and Notre Dame and sadly nothing remotely like this could even be considered at my alma maters. So remember, we are praying for you and support you all the way. Please do not let yourselves be intimidated by the forces of fear and repression in the Church. Look where that silence and repression about the real issues of human sexuality have gotten us. We have Popes, Cardinals, and Bishops who protect pedophile priests to save the image of the Church–the wolf is truly among the sheep as our Lord warned us it would be. Children and families were sacrificed to protect the image of the Church and the Hierarchy. How sinful and evil is that!
Thank you and God Bless you!
Hi, were you a speaker in the Los Angeles area? You seem familiar. Are you also an MfT?
Yes iam aLMFT and have spoken in LA many times. Who are you?
I am so thrilled to hear of this dialogue. It would be wonderful though doubtful if the hierarchy listened in to get the “sense of the faithful”. As a parent of a gay son who, minutes after he came out to us said, “Please don’t make me go to church any more!”, it is a glimmer of hope. I sent your ad from AMERICA to him as a bit of hope for him too.
Will there be CD’s or DVD’s available for those who can’t attend.
Thanks to you and all those who are making this possible. And thank you for the risk you are taking as well.
Jenny
Its not the institutional Catholic Church. Its not my church. Its not your church. Its not our church. It is Jesus’s Church. Jesus as God dictated to us throughout scripture what the truth is and and what His Church is. It is the unified and mystical Body of Christ joined through the Holy Spirit and the Eucharist. As the head of that one body on earth; when the magisterium in union with the Pope speaks, Christ speaks. We don’t have any say about it. Accept the truth of it fully and be part of the one body, or don’t and be separate. It’s that simple.
Read the Catechism, Canon Law, the Papal Encyclicals, and the Bible. All are clear, consistent, and have not wavered on their stace. When it comes to sexuality in the Catholic Church, its one man and one woman, joined by God in Marriage only. Anything else is sin, and repentance is needed. Individuals who find themselves attracted to the same sex need to abstain from acting on these desires.
I understand that that may be very difficult; Jesus told us that being part of His Church would be difficult, and we would suffer greatly in this life for it. I know that we are flawed, and selfish, and often give into temptaion. So what we do as Catholics is confess our sins, strive to be better, and let his grace and mercy carry us through this life WITHOUT ABANDONING HIS TRUTH.
And in the end, isn’t Gods voice, not our own, the only one that should matter to us as Catholics. Thank You.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU – and all who are making this possible. As a gay man, former seminarian, formerly married for 22 years, with a loving family of two daughters and six grandchildren, I can not tell you how powerful the very fact of this effort is for the church. AMEN, AMEN, ALLELUIA!. Thank you,
**** Ullrich
Thanks for this ****, a moving testimonial and one of the many voices and experiences that we hope to capture here and at our conferences in the fall.
I am so pleased that a friend notified me of this program. Being a Roman Catholic in GLBT ministry for a very long time, I realize the necessity for an open, learned, honest and uninhibited discussion of human sexuality, esp. homosexuality.
For those not able to travel to the presentation sites, I am hoping you will have CD’s or DVD’s available for purchase.
Very best wishes. What you are doing is so very important for the lives of all of us, gay and straight.
Dear Anonymous:
We’re working on various options for streaming the talks at the conferences, and int4ending to have a permanent record that will be generally accessible for people who are at the conferences and for those who cannot make them.
I am grateful that Fairfield is hosting a discussion on this important issue. Having had Gay and Lesbian friends who were needlessly alienated from the Church, I am hopeful that this discussion will help to bring a greater understanding of the issues that LGBT people face within their own Catholic faith and what lay people and clergy should be doing to improve the situation. The Gospel is ‘good news,’ especially to those who suffer unjustly from rejection and the lowered sense of self-worth that comes as a result, which is too often the experience of LGBT people within the Church. Thanks in advance for hosting this discussion.
This series is a marvelous opportunity to learn from and with LGBTIQ Catholics. There is so much to explore–issues, experiences, theological perspectives– that one only wishes to attend all of the events. Hopefully a good book will result with the insights compiled for all to read. Best wishes on an important series. Mary E. Hunt
Discussion is great, but the Roman Catholic Church is hierarchical. Bishops and other ordained leaders are the ones who get to speak for all the Church, make decisions for all the Church, and decide what is compatible and what is not compatible with Catholic Doctrine. Ultimately, where do you hope the discussion will lead? There will be no popular vote to elect the next bishop of Connecticut, or any ordained leadership for that matter. There will be no diocesan convention or general convention to change church teaching.
Clearly scholars, parish priests, religious communities and laity hold diverse and divergent opinions. But even if parishes and scholars are willing to speak out, and perhaps break the rules at times, does that really change anything? The voice, the decisions, and the authority of the Catholic Church is directed through the hierarchical institution.
Jim – Catholic people are the church. The hierarchy can control buildings and money but the laity has and always will ultimately decide how any doctrine is lived out in their daily lives. those of us who have found compatibilities with our diversity and the church need to speak out to those who are injured by the teachings of the institutional church and worse the ‘conservative’ church members that say even more hateful things. I’m not sure that we need to care about where this will ultimately lead any more than Jesus necessarily cared about what would happen when he told some parables 2000 years ago. He showed perfect love and promoted justice with courage and not much care about his religions hierarchy. I think we are called to follow his example as Catholics.
I am a Catholic graduate student of theology on the west coast. In class recently a professor mentioned, “More Than a Monologue: Sexual Diversity and the Catholic Church.” Curious and hopeful that contemporary Christian dialogue on and with the LGBTQQI community might be occurring, I searched for you on the web and here you are with a live discussion blog! I am thrilled that this collaboration and conversation is occurring!
Healthy, open and truth-seeking dialogue and understanding with, towards and for the queer community is a necessity in the Catholic Church today and it is a necessity that is rarely responded to. I hope that “More Than a Monologue” is filled with voices of all the faithful – laity, clerics, religious, women, men, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, single, married, divorced: the entire community of God – and I hope that these conversations are fruitful, deep and true.
My faith has taught me to uphold the inherent dignity and rights of all. As a supporter of equal rights for all, “More than a Monologue” makes me all the the more proud to be a Fordham Alumna. Thank you for opening a much needed conversation in our church.